Good morning, can I see Mr. Smart Oyeride, please? Okay, Mr. Oyeride, let me start by asking you, of course, the question is doing business in Nigeria. In today’s business climate, of course, it’s tough, everyone knows about that. Amid the toughness, what is the biggest headache for employers, for businesses right now? And why does it feel like it’s getting worse? Or am I the one feeling like that? Because I’m also a business person. You know, I have staff that I pay. And for me, it’s feeling like it’s getting worse. Well, thank you for having us. Some say before it gets better, that it has to get worse. Unfortunately, we are where we are. The reform has started. While we can’t run away from the fact that we are basically in a bad place before this administration came in. But quite a bit of things should have probably been done differently. So where we are, there are changes that are going on. But the sickness or the ailments of the private sector remains as it is. Even while we can see that there are moves, there are oxygen tanks moving here and there. We can see that new oxygen pipes are being bought, new beds are being brought. But we are just hoping that the benefit of those reforms will start quickly so that the patients don’t really experience some fatalities before those reliefs start coming in. But we commend those steps that have been taken and we hope we can expedite action on the actual benefit of those reliefs so that businesses can turn the corners, as we say, and continue navigating towards growth. But the environment is still challenging, but we hope something will be done quickly and those benefits will start manifesting quickly. What reliefs are you talking about now in terms of the reliefs for the businesses? Because not many Nigerians are feeling that even relief, relief is coming. And many Nigerians are even off the bracket of government relief. Now, let me focus from the perspective of the business first. While the general, the context of the masses, the household will come in from the second part, because if the household is not, if the disposable income of the household is not sufficient, if it continues to dwindle through the progressively increasing inflation rates, then it affects the business also. Because if the household cannot buy, there becomes fatality for a business to continue to produce because when you produce, you’re expecting off-takers to buy. So they are both complementary issues. As you are producing, you’re also expecting that the household will be able to buy. But from the business side, while we commence one of those interventions, the 75 billion by the Bank of Industry to SMEs, the economy stabilization plan, which we hope and believe, after the FEC’s approval, we experience a seamless passage in the Senate, which is the economy stabilization bill adds a lot of benefits for organized businesses. The context of reducing taxation and making taxation much more effective is encapsulated in that plan. About 10 fundamental changes that the plan, the bill seeks to address. The time we utilize presidential committee has also made this very fundamental recommendation, which has also been encapsulated in the economic stabilization bill. We hope the implementation of many of these interventions, the quick interventions. We also have the Pepegs Regulatory Forum that was launched about a month or two ago at the vice president, because that’s also been part of our issue. The regulatory environment is quite inauspicious. But Pepeg has taken the bull by the horn and we also want to congratulate the new minister for industry and investment for the young man or young woman’s job he did at Pepeg. So those are pockets of positives, of interventions that we are seeing and we hope those interventions will be deepened so that businesses can start feeling the positive effects. I wonder how that deepening will take effect so that there will be a bottom-up approach. Because you are DG of NECA, DG of NECA, big businesses, as it were, big employers. But it’s also well-known in Nigeria that small businesses employ the largest proportion of people, as it were, provide about 96% of jobs. So if you’re saying all these reforms, you are expecting them to deepen, I wonder how deepened they can be so that small businesses can actually feel the impact. That is one. Then the other question which I asked you earlier on, which you haven’t answered yet, is what is the biggest headache amongst the potpourri of issues? What’s the biggest headache that businesses face in Nigeria? Perhaps big businesses, because I know that many big businesses have closed down, the PZs, the GSKs, Danco, some have even left Nigeria. So what is the biggest headache right now that your people are facing? Now, it’s also true in that two-dimensional, I will answer it from two dimensions. The Gwaneke actually represents both the big businesses, the small businesses, the MSMEs, they’re all part of the platform, part of the group that we represent. As the name connotes, Nigerian employers. So once you are an employer, you ordinarily have to be part of the group. But the big businesses whose input depends on imports, one of the biggest challenge is Forex. The Forex issue has actually created a lot of challenges for many businesses, even those that left. Those that we see leaving, if you check very well, the root cause, one of the root causes of their exiting is also the issue of Forex, because it messes up your printing cost, it creates a different dynamics for you. And for those that have left, unfortunately, Forex remained a challenge. And for those that are still around, a key issue for them is Forex. Now, for the MSMEs, the SMEs, one of the biggest challenge is the regulatory environment, regulatory environment and access to funds, which we think the government is trying to resolve. Address the regulatory environment, make it much more hospitable for these businesses to create. While we have dealt with the issue of registration of businesses and the rest, but it’s one thing for you to register a business. It’s one thing for us to also provide funds for the business in the context of the intervention of VOI. But if you don’t deal with the challenges in the regulatory environment, then the regulatory environment that you did not address, will mess up the sustainability of those businesses. So for the big businesses, challenges of Forex remain one. For the small businesses, access to capital remain a big one. Therefore, everybody, the legislative and regulatory environment need to be addressed and addressed quickly. While I mentioned earlier, that PEPEC is doing quite a lot to address the regulatory environment, but we see also have to face the issues from the legislative environment. So when you’re talking about Forex, what do you mean Forex being a problem? Is it the price at which Naira is, or the availability of Forex to do the business? Absolutely. If you buy Forex at the current rate now, of over 1,500, 1,600, and you import, the cost goes directly to your cost of production. And when it goes to your cost of production, it naturally increases your cost of sales. And when it increases your cost of sales, and at the consumer side, the disposable income is not increasing. So you realize you will be able to produce, your price and elasticity is not that much, so you can produce, but off the cards, selling what you have produced become a major problem. So the cost of Forex, hopefully, have to come down. So it makes businesses, give them the opportunity to be able to buy inputs at the considerable stage, considerable level, considerable cost, so that it makes the whole concept of this cost of living, it can come down significantly. We don’t address the issue of Forex. I think it’s fundamental to a lot of things, that we’re currently facing. If we don’t address it, then we probably might just be going on a rigmarole. So Forex is a key issue, especially for businesses, whose inputs have to be imported. Now, somebody will say, that businesses should embark on backward integration. Even if I want to embark on backward integration, it’s not a one month process. If I want to backward integrate, within the context of dairy, dairy produce, I have to rear the cows. It’s not one month, it’s not one, two months, it’s not three months, it’s not even one year. If I want to backward integrate for wheat, I have to plant the wheat. I have to secure the farm. You can ask me to go and backward integrate for wheat, but I’m also being faced with the issue of insecurity. I can plant in the farm, but how do I go and harvest, when the farm is insecure? So those are the key issues, but we need to address the issue of Forex, because it’s a major challenge for Ghana’s businesses. Apart from Forex that you’ve talked about, apart from the regulatory environment, which you’ve talked about also, are there some other cost variants, that are impacting businesses in the country, that perhaps you need to tell us about? Of course, high borrowing rates, FX, like you’ve mentioned. Interest rates. Interest rates and all of that. Are there other silent things, that we might not know, that are also impacting businesses in the country, as we speak? Interest rates is a big one, which is a disincentive for borrowers, for a business to borrow, because as interest rates over in about 30%, I wonder which kind of business, we borrow at 30% and what do you want to sell? What do you want to produce? So that is a key one. Interest rates is a key one. Energy cost is another one that is becoming, that has become a major challenge. And we should not take it for granted, that when a business is not making too much of noise, about its challenges, it’s basically adjusting to those pains. We should not believe that the pain doesn’t exist. The business has just demonstrated, some level of resilience, forced to bring in some level of innovation, but that pain remains. And one way or the other, unfortunately, the pain will at a point, be passed to the consumers. Because if I borrow at 30%, or I borrow at 18%, 19, 20%, and in a short while, the interest rate move to a higher figure, it impacts my cost of doing business. And for the business to remain sustainable, we need to move that cost somewhere else. So interest rates, energy costs, is stifling regulatory environment, multiplicity of taxes, which I mentioned has been addressed currently, are those key issues that we need to address, and we need to address quickly. And kudos to the government, for the interventions they’ve brought in, to address regulatory issue, through public regulatory forum. The time we did a presidential committee on fiscal and tax reform, is also dealing with the issue of, the tax to the economy stabilization plan, but we hope the government will fast track, the implementation of this plan, so that businesses can start to feel the impacts, and feel them quickly. Do you think that you are being heard? Do you think that businesses in Nigeria are being heard? Because you said something very critical, that if businesses are not complaining, does not mean that things are not difficult for them. They are finding one way or the other to adjust, and the consumers at the end of the day, get the brunt of it, or they eventually close down. So you’re taking a look at government, and you’re taking a look at, that’s government policy, and you’re taking a look at business realities. What will it take both worlds, to really come into alignment? Because it seems governments will be saying their own, business are facing their own realities. So what will it take for both to come together, to align? And are you also being heard? Are businesses being heard in Nigeria? Now, without sounding patronizing, I must commend, I must commend some agencies of government, some ministries. I must commend- Which agencies do you mean now? Call them, let me know. I must commend the Minister of Finance, and Coordinating Minister of the Economy. He has been open, he has been receptive to engagement, absolutely. I also must commend- His engagement equals to action. Yeah, you know, a lot of our recommendations- Because this is one year of this administration. His engagement equals to action. A lot of our recommendations- Talk sometimes could be changed. A lot of our recommendation, a lot of our engagement, you are seeing proactive, you are seeing definitive steps being taken, to deal with those issues. And we don’t have to be, we don’t have to play, we don’t have to be anti-puncty on those issues. The former head of PEBEC, Dr. Jumoke Duole, who has now become the Minister for Industrial Trade and Investment, has always been very receptive, and it gladdens the heart of stakeholders that she’s now the Substantive Minister for Industrial Trade and Investment. Very receptive, very engaging. Currently, as I speak to you, we’re also having a knowledge sharing session with another agency of government, ARCON, Advertising Regulatory Council of Nigeria, also sharing our pain, and looking for ways for the private sector to deepen its collaboration with ARCON to make the environment much more receptive. So those engagements are ongoing with many of those agencies, and we believe strongly that they are receptive to our issues, and we’re all working together. First of all, to plan out definitive plans to resolve the issues that we currently have. We hope other agencies will be much more receptive to the crise of the private sector, so that we can all grow this economy together. You know why I’m asking this question? Because it’s a lot to talk about, and when it comes to business regulation and realities of businesses, we should take a look at how we can align and realign, because talk can be going on at that high level. But the people that are supposed to undertake this task, or the people that ordinary business people meet on a daily basis, they may not even have debrief, or they could be doing what they are doing on their own. At the NESG that was just concluded a few weeks ago, I moderated a session with C[1]suite executives, that’s CEOs of major Nigerian companies like MTN, the Cadbury’s of this world, and all of that. And the chief executive officer of Cadbury Mondelez, that’s the managing director of Cadbury Mondelez, did tell me, in fact, she was even sharing with us in the green room, that it takes a lot, she gets product from Ghana to Nigeria, or from Ghana to Nigeria, truck will break down somewhere, just paper, they will say, no, let’s go to Nigeria first to get it through, and I was like, is this thing really happening in this country? So it’s enough to say beautiful things, happening at the Ministry of Finance, and Pebeck now, Madam Oduwole is there, and all of that, is a whole lot to make it trickle down, that your, what’s it called, customs people will not be abiding, that your ports people will not be abiding, that a number of people will not be abiding, that even NAFDAC will not be abiding, that even, is it, many agencies, so I hope you understand what I’m saying, because that’s like, and even talking about even the roads itself, what is Minister Oumahi, because Minister Oumahi’s role, is also important in terms of, doing business in Nigeria, talking about roads. I hope you understand what I mean. These are the key issues, that we need to factor into this conversation. Now, at the top level, where policies are made, then at the operational level, I must confess to you, as you said, it’s also a different ballgame. It’s a different ballgame. We know what happens in customs. We know what happens, it’s no more, there is an executive order almost, during the last administration, that gave some definitive directives, on clearing from the ports, that gave some definitive position, on how customs should operate, that gave some definitive position, on how many of these agencies should collaborate, to reduce the timing of clearance, to reduce the multiplicity of either, both legal and illegal levy. So, at that operational level, is a different, I must confess, is a different ballgame. But you need to deal with it, at the policy level first. Engage at the policy level, and it’s at that level, you can create a joint working plan. And that is the level we are going. A joint framework, where the private sector can have a portal, or a system where we can directly report, what is happening at those operational level, to those that should listen. And that is the framework that we are currently working on, with many of these agencies. During the last administration, was a bit difficult to engage, was a bit difficult to get them to sit down, to get many of these agencies to sit down. But we seem to have broken that backlog, that bottleneck of engagement, which is quite positive, but at the operational level, and that is where we are putting focus now. So that there is a platform, where we can escalate these issues, and escalate them very well. Even at the local government level, the number of illegal levies, that goes on, the kind of harassment that goes on, even at the local level, is quite alarming. And we are still engaging, creating those platforms. There’s an adage, an African adage that says, if you have many trees, trees piling on top of trees, if there are many trees, or one on top of each other, one on top of the other one, strategically, if you want to address those quagmire, you start with the one on top, which I think we have started, and I think definitely, we are making a lot of progress. But definitely, advocacy is going on from everywhere, to make sure that these issues, they are resolved, and they are resolved expeditionally. Is it a ball of roses? Absolutely not. But definitely, we seem to be on track, towards resolving all these issues. Amongst the potpourri, of the different sectors in Nigeria, what sectors do you think, are the hardest hit, when it comes to doing business? Or is it all of us, we are in the same boat? I think for the strategic nature of it, the manufacturing seems to be hardest hit, because the manufacturing, including construction, the employment rate in those sectors is quite high, both high-end employment, low-end employment. So if a manufacturing business should close down, we are not talking of one, two, we are not talking of 10 or 100 persons losing their job, we are talking of thousands losing their job. And if thousands would lose their job, you can imagine the consequential effects on the household, even consequential effects on the businesses. Because if a thousand persons should lose their job, we have compromised the capacity of a thousand individual, to patronize businesses. We have compromised the capacity of a thousand persons, to pay school fees, to pay house rates. So the consequences is quite huge. So the manufacturing seems to be one of the hardest hit, in forex, in regulatory issues, in legislative issues, in issues concerning the ports, issues concerning customs. I think the manufacturer, because of his strategic positioning, seems to be the hardest hit. That is without, we’re not discounting the very strategic importance of every other sector. But if you deal with manufacturing sector, then we have the potential of dealing with all other sectors, because the consequential effects of addressing those issues, will trickle down to other sectors as it were. Ms. Oyeride, you are in Switzerland as you speak. I know you may have engaged in different conversations for the ILO Governing Council meeting. You may have engaged in different conversations with some foreigners, or perhaps asking questions around Nigeria. Do you think they are paying enough attention to Nigeria at this time? And perhaps in some of your discussions, is the cost structure of doing business in Nigeria scaring them off? That is number one question. The number two is talking about AFTA, that is the African Continental Free Trade Agreement. It brings big opportunities for businesses in Nigeria. With the rising cost of doing business in Nigeria, do you really think that our businesses are ready to compete, or they are too weighed down by costs? You know, the general consensus at the global level, even at the ILO level, is that Nigeria holds a very strategic position in Africa, coming out of its current challenges. And Europe also, and America, they’ve seen Nigeria as a very strategic partner. So whatever happens in Nigeria, holds a level of interest to them. And for us, we continue to, while there’s some level of skepticism about what is happening, but we’ll continue to share our current realities, and the realities of where we are going. The many seems to align with the current reforms, and many believe, yes, the current reforms, if holistically applied, as seen to the end, might navigate Nigeria out of the many years of challenges it has faced itself. But we’ll continue to engage, we’ll continue to share the perspective that we have as employers, that we can really influence the employer’s community, and that indirectly influence the investment potential of these organizations globally to come to Nigeria. Is it easy? Absolutely not. But are we making progress as employers in convincing the global employers to come to Nigeria to invest? Absolutely, we are making some level of progress. Absolutely. Now on AFTA, AFTA is a definitive project that’s Nigerian businesses, Nigeria can benefit from, from all angles, but will not benefit from AFTA if we are still bogged down with the challenges that many other countries are not bogged down with. If the borders are open, if the people of Africa, by reason of AFTA, there is free movement of trade, free movement of services within the African region, and our businesses, our manufacturing is not competitive, our services is not competitive, then we’ll have created markets for the other African countries. So while the AFTA office in Nigeria is doing quite a lot in mobilizing, in creating awareness, I think we need to address the fundamental issues that is making us not very productive at the manufacturing level, that is making an average Nigerian product to be much more, to be costlier than an average imported product. Those are the fundamentals. If not, other countries will maximize the benefit of AFTA, maximize our population, our big markets to sell their products, and we’ll invariably be exporting jobs. So we must address those fundamentals on why are we not producing enough for us to consume, and then for us to export. Those are the key issues. Okay, Mr. Eruje, we have just a few seconds to go. In fact, I should round up now, but I don’t want to round up without asking you this question. There’s a new minister. You’ve alluded to her in your earlier remarks. What is one advice you would give to Dr. Jumoke Oduwole as the new minister of industry, trade, and investment? Just very quickly. I also mentioned the minister of labor and employment. But for Dr. Jumoke, she has been quite engaging. If you want to feel the pulse of the market, then you must engage with those that are running the market. You must deepen the engagement so that the key issues, the priority issues, because priority issues for government might not be priority issues for the businesses. So we need to sit down and align those priorities so that much more can be achieved. We wish her all the best, and we hope and we trust that she will make a mark within the context of that industry. For the minister of labor and employment, there’s quite a lot that needs to be done. We need to revive the National Labor Advisory Council. We need to deepen tripartism and deepen social dialogue. The industrialization climate in Nigeria is quite challenging and has faced a lot of rough parts. The need to bring that back to the correct path cannot be overemphasized. And NECA will continue to provide the support, provide policy recommendation to drive all these policies to visible impact conclusions. Okay, thank you very much, Mr. Smart for every day. You know, you have three names there, but I hope you pardon me, Mr. Smart for every day. Thank you. Thank you very much for joining us today all the way from Switzerland. I wish you a safe trip back to Nigeria. Thank you for your insights also. Thank you for having us.